HVAC Discussions - Recent Threads

ASHRAE Guideline 1.4P For Systems Manuals Aims To Get Design Information To Facility Staff

Ed Sullivan — Mon, 13 May 2013 18:48:54 GMT

ASHRAE has long been recognized for standards that set design criteria in areas like energy consumption or ventilation. But in the past few years, ASHRAE has been paying more attention to what goes on in buildings after they are designed. Another example of ASHRAE's broader outlook is on the way. It's called Guideline 1.4P, The Systems Manual for Facilities, and it will establish a uniform procedure for creating a systems manual to transmit design, construction, testing and operational information to building owners and operators. The proposed guideline is available for public review until June 2, 2013. Click here to read about ASHRAE Guideline 1.4P for systems manuals to get design and related information of facility staff.

Engineer1946

engineer1946 — Thu, 14 Mar 2013 17:48:29 GMT

My comment for this is simple. As NICE as it sounds, it is a PC attitude and simplistic VIEW of reality. To say that "If people cared, they would FIND or MAKE the time to "DO IT RIGHT" is obtuse, and simplistically "LOOKING at the problem through Rose Colored Glasses". The fact that we are ALL being made to DO MORE WITH LESS, meaning less money as well as "PERSONNEL" means that MANY things DO go unmaintained, and uncared for. THIS is the REAL truth and fact. In an IDEAL world, one would have all the Engineers one needs. In the REAL world, "I" had to operate an 850,000 sq ft. bldg. with 3 Engineers. And Management MANDATED "FURRLOW DAYS"!!!!! Not to mention required use of Vacation time to remain within Management mandated limits.

Chillers, Pumps, Domestic and Heating HW Systems, Cooling Towers, well in excess of 1000 VAV’s, E. Gen’s, Fire Suppression System, Mandated Regulatory Weekly and Monthly tests, Varied Emergencies, and Day to Day Operational Building Calls, ….. Not a complete list by any means. And this does NOT account for changing ANY Filters What-so-ever!!!!!!

Verbiage is NICE, but Facts are Facts. Until or Unless Management and Ownership realizes the VALUE of maintaining equipment and infrastructure, and is WILLING to spend the money to provide proper staffing and man-hours needed TOO maintain a facility properly, it just WILL NOT HAPPEN! No matter HOW MANY PROSE you proliferate, or what Rose Colored Glasses you wear!

Achieving Higher Performance Operations In Any Building

Ed Sullivan — Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:37:11 GMT

How important are high performance operations strategies? Experts say that a poorly designed building that is well-operated is likely to perform better than a well designed building that is poorly operated. "ASHRAE Guideline 32-2012 For Sustainable, High-performance Operation and Maintenance" offers advice for improving the performance of any building's systems. Read more about how that guideline can help facility managers achieve higher performance operations in any building.

Four Low-Cost Or No- Cost Steps For Improving HVAC Performance

Ed Sullivan — Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:35:09 GMT

All too often, HVAC systems operate a far less than peak performance. The good news is that there are ways to improve performance significantly without making an equally significant capital investment. Click here to read industry expert Jim Newman's advice about where to look for low-cost or no-cost steps to improve HVAC performance.

Proposed ASHRAE Standard For Prevention Of Legionnaires' Disease Open For Comment

Ed Sullivan — Tue, 29 Jan 2013 00:34:48 GMT

Legionnaires' disease is responsible for 4000 deaths each year, reported William McCoy, the chairman of proposed ASHRAE standard 188P, Prevention of Legionellosis Associated with Building Water Systems, and chief technology officer of Phigenics. The standard his committee is working on is open for public comment until March 11, 2013. Go here to see a draft of the standard: https://osr.ashrae.org/sitepages/showdoc2.aspx/ListName/Public%20Review%20Draft%20Standards/ItemID/840/IsAttachment/N/Std188P_3rdPPRDraftFINAL.pdf And go here to read an article about the standard: http://www.facilitiesnet.com/facilitiesmanagement/article/Facility-Managers-Responsibilities-for-Legionella-Prevention-Under-ASHRAE-188--13036

Remove odors & fumes along with dust & particles

Tova Osofsky — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 16:22:29 GMT

In winter and summer months, when heated or cooled air is recirculated in residential and commercial buildings, odors from cooking, organic compounds, and exhaust can be a huge problem that literally makes people sick.

Before investing in expensive filtering systems, it is worth trying to replace regular HVAC filters withactivated carbon filters. Tiny pores in the carbon coating of the filter media capture and hold malodorous molecules and remove them from the air--a much better solution that the bad-and-worse combination of fumes masked by even more offensive deodorizers.

Look for filters, like Permatron's odor and fume removing air filters, that use heat setting to bond the carbon coating to the substrate to make sure that the filters will stand up to rinsing and vacuuming.

Preventing Dirty Coils Yields Greater Savings than Cleaning Coils

Tova Osofsky — Tue, 15 Jan 2013 11:33:39 GMT

An article (www.energymanagertoday.com/fsu-cleans-air-conditioning-coils-recoups-cost-in-10-months-087440) in Energy Manager Today described how Florida State University recouped the cost of cleaning the cooling coils of the air conditioning unit at the Dirac Science Library in just ten months.

The dirt they removed had been accumulating on the coils since the unit was installed over 25 years ago! Over time the dirt reduced air flow and heat transfer efficiency.

But why not just PREVENT the drop in heat transfer efficiency instead of celebrating its restoration? An outside air intake screen like Permatron’s PreVent (www.permatron.com/.../prevent-equipment-protection.aspx) catches dirt that can pass through the air intake BEFORE it can accumulate on air conditioner coils and reduce air flow. Accumulated dirt can be quickly and easily brushed off the PreVent filter with a broom or cleaned off with a shop vac as part of routine maintenance.

Keep HVAC coils free of dirt and you won't need costly cleaning to maintain maximum air flow and efficiency!

Three Strategies For Designing Energy Efficient HVAC Systems

Ed Sullivan — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 19:52:55 GMT

An article in Building Operating Management should be useful to facility managers who want to ensure energy efficient HVAC system design. The article describes three principles that facility managers should follow in the design of HVAC systems. The first is to use outdoor air and other environmental resources to help meet loads. The second is to improve the efficiency of heating and cooling distribution systems. And the third is to optimize source equipment for hot and cold water. Click here to get more details about each strategy for designing energy efficiency HVAC systems.

High School Rooftop Replacement

bmeyer — Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:46:08 GMT

We have approx. 55 Trane packaged rooftop HVAC units that need replacing these are all from 1991, i have been looking at options for replacing these units with something more reliable and energy efficient.

Started looking at the Airedale co. they have many options available. We have a new Middle School attached to the High School that is 5 yrs old, this school is equipped with a Trane chiller and two hot water boilers, this mechanical room is within working distance to the classrooms & rooftop units i would like to replace.

My idea was to check with the engineers for the needed capacity of the classrooms and estimate what if any would be available from the new chiller and the two boilers, if we still have some capacity available

We could then look at what it would take to install a 4 pipe system and a fresh air system to hook to the existing duct work in the classrooms, & new ceiling mounted cassettes .

Replacing the RTU'S with similar unit's may be the least expensive way to go, but with so many other options like Variable Refrigerant Flow, and Ground Source Heat Pumps, or hot and cold water systems i want approach the proposed replacement with an open mind and start here doing some research.

Many of you reading this may have already completed similar conversions, and if you can help i would like to read about your conversion's and configurations.

We live in Kansas so the temperature extremes are off the scale at both ends of the spectrum some times.

Thank You,

Brian Meyer

USD 465

Here is a link to Airedale www.airedaleusa.com/.../airedale_naHome

Protecting equipment from mice?

Matt Huffman — Mon, 06 Jun 2011 19:21:07 GMT

I have a client with air-cooled chillers that were installed in a remote wooded section of their property. We began servicing this equipment last year, and found (and removed) several nests of mice last summer. Over the winter, the mice moved back in and caused all sorts of damage....

Besides just putting in more mousetraps or some sort of repellent, does anyone have any "tried and true" solutions to mouse infestations in HVAC equipment? Suggestions would be appreciated.

Fabric ductwork

Matt Huffman — Fri, 06 May 2011 03:41:24 GMT

I just finished a project where we used fabric ductwork, and I just wanted to share some observations.

This was for a chemical storage room that is heated and cooling to maintain a temperature setpoint. They have to use 100% outside air (no recirculation) and they were having temperature control issues because of a lack of air distribution in the room. (If you'd like to hear more about that issue, let me know...I don't want to bore you with details if you're not interested.)

What I liked about the fabric ductwork (AKA "duct socks"):

No corrosion issues to worry about
Able to get good air "throw" down the entire length of the duct sock. We specified nozzles at the bottom of the duct, spaced every 3-4 feet, to get 30' throw straight down.
The ductwork is installed over the aisles in this room between storage racks. Workers use forklifts to load and unload products from storage racks, and now we're not worried about them running into the ductwork.
Much cheaper installation cost than comparably sized spiral ductwork with supply diffusers

Overall, this project went very well and is doing just what we wanted it to do. It even installed faster than we expected (although not as fast as the manufacturer thought it would...).

If anybody else has had experience--good or bad--with fabric ductwork, I'd like to hear about it. The traditional applications I've seen are in:

Indoor pools
School gyms
Manufacturing
Food processing plants (because it's washable)

This isn't meant to be an ad for any particular brand of fabric ductwork. I priced it up through several vendors, and if anyone's interested, I'll share who I ended up working with.

New member. HVAC contractor considering FM as a new career

Rod Nowicki — Wed, 09 Mar 2011 02:26:20 GMT

Hello everyone, great forum.

I've been an HVAC contractor for many years and I have developed an interest in FM as a possible change in direction.

My father left the trades at 40 and retired as a director in a property managment corporation and watching his career as a teen kind of made me a closet building nerd.

My wife is a corporate controller working in a small town straightening out a new mill and I am thinking of starting my FM online training while I continue to run my business as we will be back in a city within a few years and I want to persue my interest in your field.

I hope to learn more on this forum and any advice is welcomed!

Rod

Distribution Center HVAC Upgrades

jdd — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 16:20:53 GMT

We have been asked to recommend replacement HVAC equipment for a retail customer's regional distribution center. The current mechanical system seems to be common for that type of facility built in the early 90's, consisting of large gas fired air rotation units. Surprisingly, the only heat for the roll up doors on the shipping and receiving docks comes from the rotation units that may be as much as 180' away.

I would appreciate hearing from facilities managers who have undergone such a upgrade in the last few years. What worked or did not work for them. Naturally, energy efficiency and comfort improvements are major goals of this project.

Thanks,

Jeff Deem

Altus Corporation

Geothermal heat pump systems

curt — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:24:15 GMT

Anyone have any experience with these type systems? We are planning on building a new building and are looking into these. Looking for pros and cons.

Night Setback Optimization

rob452 — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 19:26:26 GMT

On our college campus, we have quite few buildings with VAV, reheat systems. We are in a colder climate (Ave winter temp 25F).

I am trying to determine how cold I can make my night setback temperature without running into problems. Would love to hear from some who have played with lower setpoints.

Electric Space Heater Restriction Policy

rob452 — Thu, 30 Sep 2010 19:43:59 GMT

As a College Campus, we have numerous offices where faculty and staff have brought in their own convective space heaters (standard electric element and fan). At 1500 Watts each, these have a tremendous energy impact - not to mention wreaking havoc with our temp control system.

We are considering implementing a temp policy along with a ban on portable space heaters. (We will still provide 150 watt infrared heaters in areas where we can not maintain a minimum temp of 70 F).

I am curious what others have done and what successes or challenges they have run into.

Thanks.

Classroom Temperature Guidelines

rob452 — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:00:05 GMT

I am wondering if there are specific temperature guidelines we can use to establish a campus wide "temperature policy". I haven't found anything on the ASHRAE or BOMA websites which specifically addresses this question.

Prog Thermostats and EPact - Approved type of Project?

rmaurer — Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:18:08 GMT

We have a client who would like to install Prog Thermostats/EMS on many EXISTING HVAC units in large commercial warehouse with adjacent office space - they would like to put Prog Therm on both wrhse and office units. Is such a project eligible for incentives under EPAct? The HVAC Units will NOT be new - only the Prog Therm/EMS/Software to control them. Is this considered a "qualified project"? If so, Does the s/w "modeling" used for other projects apply or is there a simpler way to prove the %-reduction? I need some feedback as to whether this is something that will be approved, and what the "sticky points" might be for getting the tax incentive approved. I will accept referrals to someone who might be able to help answer this. Thanks. Ron, Allentown, USA

Cleaning supply and return vents in patient rooms

BobBudnik — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:18:52 GMT

How do you clean the supply and return vents in patient rooms. Who actually performs this work? EVS? or Maintenance? How do you coordinate when the room is not occupied?

ERV

JoeMC — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 17:24:08 GMT

My school department 2 years ago installed 4 ERV ' S units ,Since the installation we have had problem when it is humid/raining outside .There is a Dirty Sock Smell through out buidling ? Has any one had simliar problems or filmailer with this ?

Is there such a thing as "quality control" when contracting for HVAC preventive maintenance with an outside company?

Judy_Davis — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:29:37 GMT

I am a facilities manager for a retail chain. Probably one of my biggests challenges is quality control for HVAC preventive maintenance. I'm not sure there is such a thing without having someone go on the roof with the contractor and making sure the filters are changed and they are not pulling wires off the condenser fan motors and reporting them as defective.

Would like to hear from other retail facility managers on this subject.

R-22 Phaseout: What's Your Plan?

Chris Matt — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:04:53 GMT

With environmental regulations forcing manufacturers to cease production of refrigerant R-22 for new HVAC and refrigeration equipment, what is your plan? Are you considering system replacement? Will you continue using R-22 until the supply runs out despite potential price increases? Interested in your thoughts. Thanks.

Chiller tripped

hamdan — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 09:55:04 GMT

We have 7nos of Centrifugal chiller Mc-Quay.640Tr each.

Our Chiller no.07 frequent tripped as per Alarm below:

15-06-09	18:01:20	COMPR STOP - Oil Delta Pressure Low #1
15-06-09	18:06:53	COMPR STOP - Oil Pressure Low - Start #1
15-06-09	18:08:13	COMPR STOP - Oil Pressure Low - Start #1
15-06-09	18:15:38	COMPR STOP - Oil Pressure Low - Start #1
15-06-09	18:25:19	COMPR STOP - Oil Pressure Low - Start #1
15-06-09	19:13:21	COMPR STOP - Oil Pressure Low - Start #1
15-06-09	19:20:54	COMPR STOP - Oil Pressure Low - Start #1
15-06-09	19:22:21	COMPR STOP - Oil Pressure Low - Start #1
15-06-09	19:50:44	COMPR STOP - Oil Pressure Low - Start #1
15-06-09	21:28:23	COMPR STOP - Oil Pressure Low - Start #1
15-06-09	21:34:35	COMPR STOP - Oil Pressure Low - Start #1
16-06-09	7:24:36	COMPR STOP - Oil Sump Temp Sensor Out of Range #1
16-06-09	8:33:50	COMPR STOP - Oil Pressure Low - Start #1
16-06-09	8:35:49	COMPR STOP - Oil Pressure Low - Start #1
16-06-09	8:37:57	COMPR STOP - Evaporator Water Flow Loss #1

After checking,we found that lux for cable connector burned.Any body can help me to resolve this problem

thanks guys

-hamdan-

Cleaning of Internal Tubes of Chiller Condenser.

theonlyone — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:16:21 GMT

Hey guys!.. I have a question in cleaning of Internal Tubes of the Chiller Condenser. Nylon Brush is commonly use in cleaning a tube or in a term in swabbing. Is the Conbination brsuh can help to clean internal tubes of a chiller>or their is a bad effect in a tubes? Because, nylon brsuh cannot remove all dirts inside the tubes. The "combination brsuh" is a nylon brsuh with a bronze brush.

Thank you....

The R-22 phase out - How are you prepared?

gmckinney2009 — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:50:58 GMT

On January 1st 2010, equipment manufacturers can no longer use R-22 in their air conditioning systems. The federal production and consumption allocation for R-22 (HCFCs) will be drastically reduced and the price will surely skyrocket. This will make servicing R-22 equipment even more expensive and in some cases impractical. I would like to know what steps, if any, individuals within the facility maintenance sector are taking to prepare themselves for this major change.