Most info seems to be for using LED's for T8's in parking areas. What experience is there for office use?
You may want to check out -> <a href="www.lightdec.com/.../a>
They make a fantastic drop in replacement T8 using LED's.
Best regards,
Bill
They could be a good substitution. The ones referred in earlier post do not seem to be UL approved.
In any case, unless someone else is paying for those lights, its OK. The cost of those lights vis-a-vis energy savings is not such a good story. you are lot better off using new Long Life T8 lamps. They are already at 40,000 hours and as a system are under 5 year warranty.
Hello,
While LED's are energy efficient, rapidly evolving and an emerging source in the lighting industry, it may still be premature to apply in many instances, due to performance and cost. T8 lamp technology along with electronic ballasts has also been evolving and will be a force for some time, given their long life and wattage flexibility. The cost of LED's is still too high and the output still too low and while I continue to fit them in wherever I can effectively, I cannot discard T8 Lamps in place of them today, given the investment/maintenance comparison. You can still gain a lot of efficiency flexibility with a T8 lamp & ballast configuration and they are much less expensive.
Danny
Most T8 systems are still more efficient (in lumens/watt) than LEDs - don't forget to look at the ballast too. If you look at the drop in T8 replacement - nothing is mentioned about the lumens produced by the LEDs. If you are dead set on having LEDs in your T8 fixtures, make sure your fixtures will handle the directional light versus the tube.
You see LEDs in parking situations because of temperature variations. As it gets colder the T8 produce less light and when it gets even colder - the tubes might not even start properly (giving your parking structure an ominous strobe effect). LEDs love the cold weather.
The DOEs CALiPER program (www1.eere.energy.gov/.../caliper.html) did a study of a drop in tube (not the same one as above) and there is a lot of room for improvement.
1 - Cost: You can buy plenty of T8 tubes for the cost of an LED replacement lamp. The efficacy (lumens/watt) of LEDs don't justify the investment.
2 - Efficacy: In reviewing the data for the above LED, I could not find lumen output data on the website. I know the DOE CALiPER program has tested LED replacement tubes (www1.eere.energy.gov/.../caliper.html) and the results were poor - stick with the T8s for now.
3 - Fixtures: Your light fixture is designed for a tube - installation of a unidirectional light source may not work very well.
I partly agree with Danny. LEDs are not always the best replacement for fluorescent lighting. LEDs have an extremely high installation cost (some studies say that LED fixtures can cost up to $333!) and like Danny said, they can have some performance issues due to heat dissipation and overheating. However, LEDs can be excellent for some applications like exit signs.
Like Danny said, I wouldn’t discard T8s for LEDs, but you might want to consider replacing T8s with T5s, which are the newest generation of fluorescent lighting technology. I also disagree with the idea that T8 lamp technology “will be a force for some time.” T5 lighting technology has actually surpassed T8 technology in efficacy, and due to its design, T8 lighting will not be able to improve much further beyond its current efficacy, whereas T5 technology has room to grow.
T5s are also 12.5% more energy efficient than T8s and can be up to 42% more efficient if you de-lamp. T5 light quality tends to be better as well, which can help improve productivity in an office.
Replacing T8s, or even T12s, with T5 technology can be expensive because T5 bulbs usually can’t function in T8/T12 fixtures. Luckily, within the last year or two, companies have started making adapters so that T5s will work with T8 and T12 fixtures, making it a lot less expensive. Here’s an example of a company that offers a T5 adapter: www.lumiversal.com. Also, make sure that whatever product you choose is UL certified; some companies are sending out false certification numbers.
Hope that helps!
Before you change anything, think about PAYBACK. How long will it take to recover the investment of the upgrade. As of today, the cost of LED's is still to high to have a reasonable payback.
fmlodge
I've collaborated on an article detailing the efficacies of T5 vs. LED. By disclosure, please know that my firm manufactures a retrofit solution allowing T5 bulbs to be used in existing T12 or T8 fixtures. For your purposes, the LED information will be very helpful. The article can be accessed at:
www.lumiversal.com/.../T5%20v.%20LED.pdf
Aside from the high LED cost, be sure to consider the light quality (CRI), higher heat generation and corresponding HVAC impact. Claimed LED bulb life is also worth investigating further.
scotts
If you are using these for parking structures and they are to be on 24/7 then you should consider LED T8s. They use 50% of the energy that the best fluorescent bulbs use. They work better in the cold. They will produce more than enough light. The DOE reports sited take into consideration the entire output of the bulbs, so they dont properly reflect the footcandles to the floor. This is your only concern in a parking structure. We have retrofitted a few parking structures and the clients are more than happy with the result and long term savings. Stick to a manufacturer that has UL approval and a 5 year warranty for T8s. I would also suggest to use a high kelvin such as 5600k. This will produce about 30% more visible light in the parking structure than a 4100k. You are welcome to visit our site or call and ask for Larry Thrall and I can send you a cost benefit analysis.
I wrote to :Rick Stilwell
Products & Services Manager
Rick@Theledlight.com
www.TheLEDLight.com
775-841-4490
about the lumens for their LED lamps for T8 replacement and that our concern is we presently we get in excess of 2000 lumens for a 25W T-8. Rick's reply was :"The Lumens of our tubes is for pure white 1460Lm and Daylight white 1800Lm".
I hope this gives you some information and direction.
David
Good Morning. I'm quite inexperienced in this field, but I'm trying to conduct a cost-benefit analysis for replacing T12 fixtures with T8 fixtures. The T12 fixtures that are being replaced are 10 to 12 years old. I'm looking for any guidance on the service life of this type of equipment or similar information. Does anyone any specific information that would help me with this analysis? Thank you.
Good Morning; our underground garage was illuminated with T12 and electromagnetic ballast; we retrofit all the fixture with T8 and one electronic ballast per fixture; we also installed a reflector on the old fixture, this incresed the foot candles down to the floor, creating a more uniform light wash.
our fixtures are 30 years old, but we were able to just replace the tombstone and retrofit the existing with a great saving.
the lights are on 24/7. our payback was less than 1.5year.
Still looking for an LED product that I can replace without major labor and with the same results, cost still too high, light quality not up to par.
Timothy,
Lithonia and a number of the other major lighting manufactures are making retrofit type porducts that use the existing fixture housing and upgrade the look and technology to newer sources. Here is a link to the Lithonia page.
www.lithonia.com/.../line.aspx
You did not mention what type of fixture you are replacing. It may be a simple as removing the existing ballast, installing a new T8 electronic ballast and then installing new T8 type lamps in the existing sockets.
One other item to look at is how much light do you have now and how much do you really need. The quantity of light required today is generally less than may have been installed 10 years ago. You can easily tailor a T8 lamp and ballast combination to save energy and end up with an appropriate light level. It can actually get a little complicated with all of the various options for energy saving lamps, long life lamps, different ballast factors, dimming, etc.
If you could provide a little more information as to what you currently have, i.e. 3 lamp, 18 cell parabolic fixture installed 8' x 8' on center and it is for an open office area with 54" high furniture partitions, I may be able to offer some additional advice.
One other thing for you to look into is to see if there are any utility rebates for doing these changes. I recently completed a lighting replacement in (2) high schools and with the right lamp, ballast and fixtures we were able to get rebates of $10 per fixture plus additonal money for controls.
If you still have T12 I would think it would make a lot of sense to look at retrofitting to T8 or possibly install completely new fixtures.
The LED lighting industry has developed a lot over the last couple years and LED tubes are only one of several options. Although it's subjective, the light quality from most of them is no improvement and buyers are well advised to require certified third party testing and measurement as well as real life tests before committing. We have all come to expect consistent and predictable performance from fluorescent but that's not always the case with LED.
Of course I'm biased, but my opinion is that LED based luminaires such as we manufacture are a better option. It's certainly true that any of the LED options require a large capital outlay and aren't perfect for everyone, but there are a lot of benefits as well. Check out www.goenergyeffective.com and send me an e-mail if you want to learn more.
Up front, I will tell you that we are an LED lighting company. That said, while we offer a 5yr warranty LED T-8 tube light, I do not feel that LED tube lights handle the heat dissipation very well yet. The enclosed tube tends to allow the heat to build up and the LED chips "curl" causing lumen degradation. It is the driver that heats up, so we have tried external drivers and that seems to work much better. Drivers are similar to conventional ballasts, but last much longer. For now, we are pushing our clients to look at full fixture replacements versus tube light retrofits. Our best results have come from warehouses, parking garages, high bay LED lights, etc. We offer 10 yr warranty on those with a lease/finance program which helps in the capital expenditure category. For office settings, T-8 and T-5 fluorescents are still the short term solution for upfront cost. There are environmental issues, light quality issues, etc. that come into play as well, but that gets into a whole other line of arguments. Would be happy to answer any individual questions anyone has.